Forum Topic

Prestolite Redevelopment

I attended the Open House in early June concerning the Prestolite redevelopment, but haven't heard anything since.  Had interesting discussions with Genesis about means of improving the proposal.  One important idea, would be to require that the residents provide 24 hour security for the development.  Genesis seems to be open to the idea, but my understanding is that this will require residents to organise to push for it to be included in the terms of the permission.Does anyone know if Genesis have resibmitted their proposals to H&F council?  Are any community meetings planned in either Acton or H&F to discuss the latest proposals?Have their been any discussions with the local councillor to ensure residents' views are taken into account?Also be interested in hearing other area residents' thoughts about the current proposal. Thank you,Brandon Block,Valetta Road

Brandon Block ● 7148d55 Comments

Hi Julie,Before my time in Acton but if you haven't already have a look at this website:http://www.lucasmemories.co.uk/site/Acton/index.htmDown the bottom you can click on different galleries, maybe you will see your Dad in there :-)

Clair Connolly ● 2461d

Hi there I have just found this site.I read your discussion about CAV which I knew as Lucas Acton as my father used to work there along with some friends. It is a real shame the Company has now gone. My parents used to live in Cobbold Road then moved away from the area in 1964. My father would often speak about the times he worked at the place and he regretted leaving the firm who actually pleaded with him not to move to his new employers. Sadly my parents are no longer around. Dad would continue to  chats about the company right up to his pasting and I remember what he would chat about.I would love to hear from anyone who used to work at Lucas Acton and hear if they remember my father.I hope to hear from someone who knew the place.

Julie Noon ● 2470d

No, it was a more recent one, about the proposal to build flats on the car park, giving the proud owners a spectacular view of the sewage works and the people behind a spectacular view of the new development. But thanks, anyway.

Keith Clarke ● 5994d

Is it this thread you are looking for?

Sara Nathan ● 5994d

Jim Lawes ● 6723d

Last year I contacted John Gallagher (wasn't he a councillor?) about underground rivers, in particular the Warple as he is a bit of an expert on this and he sent me this interesting information:'The river is the Stamford Brook west branch. I have only very sketchy maps with approximate routes in Gwilym Rowland's and the Harper Smith's books.  The principal rivers the SB which rises at Gypsey Lane, flows down the west side of Horn Lane, crosses Springfield Gardens, goes round Steyne Road, down Crown Street and along Avenue Road and Warple Way, the Bollo Brooke, which rises in Hanger Hill, flows down to Fordhook Avenue to Acton Town Station and along the lane of the same name and the Bourn, which rises in Friary Park and comes down between Cumberland Park and Goldsmith Avenue and under the Windmill. There is also the east Stamford Brook, which is the boundary between Acton and Hammersmith, rising in the Scrubs and flowing along Old Oak and Askew Roads.'John Gallagher

Marlene Plimley ● 6897d

Check out 211 The Vale for Napiers?Acton should be proud of its past!!

Jim Lawes ● 6898d

The Napier site used to make weapons I seem to remember.  When Churchill made a visit Acton was alight... but they missed ...

Dee Cook ● 6898d

My neighbour upstairs (who died many years ago) told me that the Germans were trying to bomb the old Napier site but kept missing.(I looked up Napier on search and Colin Vaughn was right) This explains why there are so many hits in the surrounding areas. Even Bedford Park lost a few houses, one on Blenheim Road for example. I even heard but cannot confirm that The Sun pub on the Askew Road took a direct hit on a Saturday night when it was full!May be right as the pub standing there is a modern(ish) building.

Marlene Plimley ● 6899d

One day last summer I was passing by the site and an old man was peering through the gates on the Cobbold Road side watching the demolition  being carried out. I approached him. He had a tear in his eye, told me he had worked in that factory from a young lad until his retirement. He said " You don't know what it means for me to see this." I was moved by his words.In the original plans submitted by Lemon Land (who then sold it on with grant of permission to Genesis) there were plans for an underground car park. "With all that underground water?" I thought.Jim, what do you think those upright cement tubes are? Might this have something to do with the decontamination of the site? Now that's another story.

Marlene Plimley ● 6899d

Thanks, Jim. I'll go in search of Napier tomorrow.

Keith Clarke ● 6899d

KeithSorry to hear about the bashing!You probably know that Acton, Park Royal and West London generally were once seen as being the most busy industrial area in Europe...once!For wxample, did you realise that Acton had an airport long before Heathrow came on the scene.  Posh cars were made at Napiers etc etc.If you type NAPIER into Forum Search it will lead you to a posting of mine some time back ..which was part of a longish a whole thread..which describes a good few places..for starters!

Jim Lawes ● 6899d

And there's a good deal more daylight to be seen following today's bashing, Jim! Thanks for taking some very nice pictures, anyway. And all this stuff about the rivers is fascinating. Any other local history, anyone?

Keith Clarke ● 6899d

I meant "Hi Marlene" !

Jim Lawes ● 6899d

Hi MarlineYes the Wardle River apparently ran down the edge of Horn Lane etc etc...and whilst it is named here as Stamford Brook..your data is quite correct..according to a book I have here.." The Lost Rivers of London" by Nicholas Barton.oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooI would imagine that CAV has an old Staff Club somewhere?

Jim Lawes ● 6899d

Unless plans have changed there will be flats  along Larden Road right up to Cobbold Road. I think these will be the 190 private ones. I thought they were going to keep the original building  but passed by today and it looks like it is coming down. Dust everywhere. I noticed my windows 3 blocks away were full of dust .Warple Way is named after the Warple underground river which flows into Stamford Brook. It has been contained in a sewer and if you walk up Woodstock Road and along Muggers Alley you can her the rush of water under the manhole covers.There is a wealth of history surrounding the site. It was formerly CAV and then Lucas CAV. Many of my neighbours had worked there. The factory was the hub of the community.  Nicholas Barton writes in Lost Rivers of London 'The construction of the Lucas factory in Warple Way, Acton Vale, was help up for no less than a year from flooding from a nearby stream. But if these streams are contained in sewers what are they doing causing all these trouble...... Though we may imprison the main stream of a river, we cannot deal with the numerous tributary rivulets which run along the original course of the stream.An elderley resident of Valetta Road and former employee of CAV told me a story. Before the war CAV was affiliated with Bosch. I believe they made fuel pumps for aircraft. This parnership was dissolved when war broke out but CAV still had the plans and coordinates of the factory in Klein Manchow, Germany. One of the  RAF pilots  who carried out the bombing operation was a former CAV employee.He probably knew that some of his former workmates were inside. A la guerre comme a la guerre.

Marlene Plimley ● 6899d

Keith,I haven't known of any plan to save any of the buildings..being a resident far away in Isleworth and just passing by..that day.. on my way to The Vale.But in that Larden Road building picture ..you can just about see some daytime..where the roof has been bashed in.I would have thought that scaffolding around the building and protection for the roof would be a better safeguard if it was to be saved!!

Jim Lawes ● 6899d

Maybe Jim's right. They have been bashing the hell out of the block parallel to Larden Rd today. Weren't they going to keep all three?

Keith Clarke ● 6899d

Well, the Prestolite remains are about as beautiful as it gets, but all things are relative!

Keith Clarke ● 6903d

You have a beautiful vista Keith ?I'm envious :)

Account suspended ● 6903d

Funnily enough, I've become quite attached to the one that dominates the beautiful vista from my home! But its principal merit is that it doesn't come between my tv aerial and Crystal Palace transmitter.

Keith Clarke ● 6903d

Keith- I don't see Jim's name further up the thread, so I think he may just be commenting on what he's seen & snapped.Yes I remember those blocks as being ones that are due to stay rather than be demolished, Can't say what merit they have - maybe they're just too expensive to get rid of!

Account suspended ● 6903d

Are you sure they're due to disappear? The original plans certainly retained them, with an extra floor being added.

Keith Clarke ● 6904d

This is an extract from the Borough of Hounslow's UDP map..and hopefully you can pick out the Prestolite site.It seems to be located in the top left corner of the London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham...whilst Warple Way and Valetta Road are in LB of Ealing. Is that correct?It is indeed a massive site..accommodation for another 1000 people?  and more?Apologies for the darkness!

Jim Lawes ● 6905d

Earlier this week the Prestolite site seemed semi-dormant..no doubt awaiting a decision from somewhere.. as since reported!  It was certainly time to take a quick picture of the remaining buildings before they disappear!The view throught the gate on Cobbald RoadooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooAnd the differnt view from Larden RoadoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooWasn't Lardon Road being earmarked by Mr Livingstone and his consultants for diverted traffic off The Vale when his Tramlines were to take priority!  Lot's of chaos at all those little crossroads in that area will be an unwanted future nightmare!

Jim Lawes ● 6905d

The diggers are back at work and there's quite a lot of activity on the site.

Account suspended ● 6905d

This story appeared on HammersmithToday.com on Feb. 28th. Strange it is only creeping over to the other sites now as this development is really closer to Acton and Chiswick. Oh well. There are more stories about it on the sidebars which are interesting like Prestolite Deal on the Horizon if anyone is interested.

Marlene Plimley ● 6909d

There's a story on ChiswickW4 this evening saying that because the developers have added another 12 social housing units - it's now 35% apparently, Ken has lifted his opposition.Is that the green light then?

Sara Nathan ● 6909d

…so there’s a big ding dong about mix of tenure but nothing said about the loss of essential facilities that the original schemes were going to provide?  Maybe Ken should look at the wider issues.

Julia Hunt ● 6977d

And here is the story that you would have seen on the news:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6212563.stmThe issue is over the mix of the tenure, rather than the design of the scheme or the facilities it provides.Helen

Helen Coleman ● 6977d

This is what Ken and Andy Slaughter have to say:http://www.london.gov.uk/view_press_release.jsp?releaseid=10269

Julia Hunt ● 6977d

....and what about the doctors surgery ‘or similar’? The developers knew Hammersmith and Fulham PCT had no intention of supporting the idea.  Now the million dollar question is - What is similar to a doctor’s surgery?

Julia Hunt ● 6977d

The original application which I believe the GLA approved was for 589 residential units, the current application is for 453.There are other differences between the two applications , the first included a school for instance.I wonder if the GLA's concerns re affordable housing will enable the units to be built to the standards and sizes set out in the London Plan. Or whether we're now seeing the advent of 'affordable housing' and 'ghetto' as interchangeable terms.

Account suspended ● 6977d

Is that good news?

Sara Nathan ● 6977d

Just heard on the news that Ken has thrown out plans for the Prestolite development because not enough properties are affordable.

Julia Hunt ● 6978d

Planning permission for the Genesis Development (453 dwellings) on the old Prestolite site has been approved.

Julia Hunt ● 7050d

Yes, I’m sure there’s a toilet link there somewhere Marlene.

Julia Hunt ● 7088d

High quality public realm areas? Sound like toilets, you know 'on the throne.'? 'They believe that their scheme is consistent with planning policies...' Well! On the letter from LBHF dated 27th July 2006 it clearly says 'the proposed development does not accord with the provisions of the adopted Unitary Development Plan.' Is there a contradiction here? Can anyone explain this to me?They believe that their scheme is consistent with planning policies

Marlene Plimley ● 7088d

Just read the Prestolite story on the front page.  Can someone tell me what 'high quality public realm areas' are?

Julia Hunt ● 7088d

....just posted this on the Chiswick site.• It is likely that local schools will not have enough places available to accommodate children of school age generated by the development. The proposal fails to make adequate educational provision.  • A doctor’s surgery (or similar) has been proposed, however both Ealing PCT and Hammersmith and Fulham PCT have publicly stated that they would not support this.  The developers would be aware of the situation.  The wording of the application is misleading.• There will be a significant effect on local transport arising from the increased population.  There is no underground/train station in the immediate vicinity; a high number of the developments’ residents will use the bus services near and on the Uxbridge Road (272, 266, 207 and 607).  These buses are often very crowded or full.  Government planning guidance to local authorities aims for them to ‘manage urban growth to make the fullest use of public transport’.  Of course this can only be achieved if the service is reliable and capable of accommodating the ever increasing population.  What planning obligations will be used to address this issue?• Has a section 106 agreement been negotiated to mitigate the impact of the development on local parks in the vicinity?• There is concern regarding the lack of information in relation to the environmental impact of the development especially possible/probable land and water contamination.  When will a final environmental report be submitted?

Julia Hunt ● 7095d

I went to the exhibition, and to be honest you didn't miss much. There was little/no additional information over and above that which was made available in the recent newsletter and the information/supporting documents for the application on the hammersmith and fulham website (link below).http://www.idoxwam.lbhf.gov.uk/WAM/showCaseFile.do?action=show&appType=planning&appNumber=2006/02023/FULAs last time they gave the opportunity to submit further questions that couldn't be answered on the day for a more detailed response and, as last time, I have yet to recieve a reply.

Helen Smith ● 7117d

Unfortunately I couldn’t make the Open Day.  Has anyone got feedback they’d like to share?  I’m particularly concerned that I’ve not yet been able to get comprehensive information regarding decontamination of the site.  I also have huge reservations regarding the pressure a development this size will have on local transport, schools and doctors.

Julia Hunt ● 7117d

------------------------------------------------------------------------Preview MessagePlease review your post. If everything is OK, click Submit below. Otherwise,click the Back button on your browser to make corrections.Topic: Re:Prestolite Redevelopment Message:Is it my imagination or do they  hold these public consultations when they know many people are out of town?  When Lemon Land, the previous owners appealed to the Planning Inspectorate on the very first scheme we were notified just before Christmas (14/12/04) and had until 11th of January to send in our comments. Again, many people are away or preoccupied with the holidays. And.....look at the measly time they have allotted for the Open Day 3-7PM - 4 hours! Most people work during these hours or are in transit. You think they would do a Saturday as well!I pass the demolition site everyday and I wonder if that is being properly regulated. Looked very shoddy to me. They had to close Larden Road the other day as chunks of concrete were falling into the street. I was assaulted by 'wet dust ' yesterday as I walked along Cobbold Road. One skinny hosepipe quelling all that dust and what is in that dust, I wonder?From my notes I have found some concerns raised by Ealing Council in a letter dated 14/07/04: Summarised as follows: Raise objections on grounds of impact on living conditions of the residents in Valetta Road in terms of overlooking, loss of outlook and sense of enclosure; inadequate educational provision for schools within LBE; impact on highway network within LBE and impact on parks within LBE.However this was for the first scheme which had plans for 589 units. It has been reduced in this new scheme and will have an estimated population  density of 1700. Add the populations of Bromyard House and the old Somerfield site to that and we could have thousands of people and hundreds of cars! Affordable housing - yes! Warehouse of humanity - no!

Marlene Plimley ● 7125d

I have looked briefly at the online plans but have not found them to be terribly useful.  Unfortunately, not able to attend the Open House on the new plans, so would appreciate any info. those who can attend might provide about shifts since June.It seems to me that we need to have a coordinated response to the application, and that a meeting of Ealing residents affected by the proposals should be held.  I believe the period for public consulation regarding the plans ends on August 28th.  I would like to play a role in organising such a meeting, but unfortunately my August plans make doing this  very difficult. It seems to me that the consultation period could not come at a worse time for most Londoners as so many of us are out of town for some of the month.  That said, is there anyone who would like to take the lead, or who could suggest an appropriate venue for such a discussion?I am also somewhat suprised at the passive role being played by our three local councillors.  Where are they?  What are they doing to protect our interests in this matter or to ensure our voices are heard?  I have written to the local conservative councillor and was told that she would get back to me after a recent planning meeting.  I have not heard anything yet.Sincerely,Brandon Block

Brandon Block ● 7125d

The plans and some associated documents can be found here:http://www.idoxwam.lbhf.gov.uk/WAM/showCaseFile.do?action=show&appType=planning&appNumber=2006/02023/FUL

Julia Hunt ● 7127d

The proposal includes 453 residential units along with a GP surgery or similar, café or similar, retail shop or similar, community meeting room, 177 car parking spaces (total 280 spaces including off-site provision) and amenity space. I was at a meeting last week at which both Hammersmith and Fulham and Ealing Primary Care Trusts made it clear that they were not supporting a GP Surgery on the Prestolite site so it will be interesting to see what the ‘or similar’ is.There is local concern about contamination (it was originally an industrial site).There is also apprehension regarding the impact that a development this size will have on the local infrastructure, especially if you take into account other major developments underway in the immediate area i.e. Bromyard House, Cowper Road.If I were you I’d go to the Open Day at St Saviours Church (Cobbold Road) on 3 August between 3pm-7pm.

Julia Hunt ● 7127d

Hi there, could you possibly contact me via e-mail or by phone as i am keen to find out what is going on there,especially as it may effect Southfield Ward.Pc Tim SCRIMSHAWSouthfield Ward0208 7212946Southfield.SNT@met.police.uk

Southfield Ward Police ● 7127d

The amended proposals will be displayed at St Saviours Church, Cobbold Road on Thursday 3 August, 3pm-7pm.

Julia Hunt ● 7130d

All's quiet on the western front!  Went by today and it looked like the demolition derby had gone on holdiay. Anyone know anymore?

Marlene Plimley ● 7132d

I have a business just around the corner in LBE and can see the site (through a haze of brick dust) as I type. We have had days where we have been unable to work because the vibrations from the demolition have been to strong for us to use our equipment.You would think that as a matter of courtesy Genesis would keep everyone in the area informed of their plans. This is too large a development to put the onus on individuals having to seek out snippets of information.My sympathies to those of you close by weighing up whether to open your windows and deal with the dust and noise or suffer the heat.

Account suspended ● 7137d

Hi Brandon, I spotted details of the Wendell Park group on the Hammersmith Today site http://www.hammersmithtoday.co.uk/default.asp?section=community&link=http://nnet-server.com/server/app/forum/default.asp?site=7 someone called Caroline Macmillan posted with the details. I'll chase Genesis again tommorrow to see if I can get any more details re timescales etc whilch I'll post on here. In the meantime feel free to get in touch via e-mail, I have drafted an inital letter covering my main areas of concern which I'm happy to share.All the best Helen

Helen Smith ● 7137d

Hi Brandon, I emailed you via the forum with some contact details when you first posted.  Did you get them?

Julia Hunt ● 7137d

Please keep me informed, too - I'd like to come to meetings if at all possible.

The Editor ● 7137d

Hi Helen.  Thank you for your response and your offer to help coordinate our area's response.  Do you know who is coordinating the Wendell meetings and how I (and you) could be informed so we might attend?Or do you have other ideas how to move things forward?  We could organise a Valetta Road meeting, as some of our concerns may be unique (Ealing, parking, impact of the north end of the development), though as Ealing residents we might do best to participate in the Wendell Park discussions, as H&F residents may hold more sway with the planning board.Thanks,Brandon Block

Brandon Block ● 7137d

They originally planned to submit the plans in mid June, I spoke with the person responsible at Genesis and he said that this had been revised to 10th July I checked recently and there are still no details on the Hammersmith and Fulhman website, and as at the 16th July the revised plans had definitely not been submitted.I know the residents of Wendell Park area have met a few times to discuss, but I haven't attended.  I'd be keen to co-ordinate responses to the proposals to ensure all areas of concern are addressed if you and/or anyone else is interested.Helen Smith (also Valetta Road)

Helen Smith ● 7137d