Forum Topic

Petition for Low Traffic Neighbourhood

As the borough has introduced Low Traffic Neighbourhood measures without consultation a petition is available http://chng.it/fYqdXqBH4CThe traffic building in Acton is awful and is not reducing emissions in the area in my opinion not to mention further closures in the borough. If anyone had seen one for Hounslow please share as the traffic building down Acton Lane due to the closures by both Ealing and Hounslow boroughs is causing havoc. Not to mention if anyone is going this way there is a temp light on Chiswick High Road and Gunnersbury Ave.

Nicola Tyler ● 1790d13 Comments

There seems to have been no base-line research.There also seems to have been no Equality Impact Assessment, although councillors refuse to respond or engage on that point.But I have put in an FOI, so we will know.The council line seems to have moved from "we are sorting rat-runs " - which largely these LTNs do not do, to "We think there may be rat-runs when traffic gets back to normal, so we are pre-empting that" Following the Prime Minister's announcement yesterday, it seems traffic will not be back to whatever normal is within the six months of the trial, so it's hard to see how that can be sustainable.I do wonder if Rupa will get any more response from the council than the rest of us have had.

Sara Nathan ● 1787d

Several people mention waiting for facts and numbers to emerge from this consultation. Many of us asked Ealing to get together some base line figures on pollution and traffic flow together before installing the barriers. Has anyone seen where LBE have published their measures? It would be very useful to have them to hand for these discussions. Not just for the residents but the beleagured local Councillors too.

Maire Lowe ● 1789d

The problem with this plan, though, is that car use is on the rise. This affects everyone and how do you address that. This plan helps a few people on this matter, but makes the overall situation worse and for some on the surrounding road, much worse.Had this been implemented along with a plan or scheme that genuinely sought to improve the situation for Horn Lane and Churchfield Road it would be one matter, but it hasn't.

Ron Lewis ● 1789d

You are right Ron - I do know better when it comes to traffic in Goldsmith Road.  But I’m sorry to hear about your problems in Lynton Road, rat-running is horrible for residents and I fear that other than having more and more main roads blocked with traffic there is no easy solution - possibly using our cars less ; we’re definitely heading towards car- overload with limited capacity to accommodate it.

Susan Hauser ● 1789d

Lynton Road, however, does have more of a ratrunning problem, as cars bypass the queues on Horn Lane, driving up Pierrepoint by St Vincent's School, and cut up through the Twyford Avenue area. No one seems to give a crap about that, though.

Ron Lewis ● 1789d

Hi Susan,The thing is, Goldsmith Road is so quiet, we used it for practice when my kids started learning to ride bikes because a: it was so quiet and b: it was one-way, so there would never be a problem looking for cars from two directions.You would know better than me, but I have never seen more than 5-6 cars stuck in the road when the barriers are down at the level crossing. And as the barriers sometimes stay down for five minutes and it is much harder to force your way out of Goldsmith Road than Milton Road, I would say that suggests there is not much of a ratrunning problem.

Ron Lewis ● 1789d

The problem is, Ossain, that you write off everybody being specific about the problems facing Acton as "anecdotal" then start talking facts with the case study in Walthamstow.How does a case study in Walthamstow relate to Acton? The road layout is different, the area is different, its connection to main arteries like the A40 and M4 is different.If I put forward data from an LTN in Mumbai or Melbourne, would that count as facts?Every area is different. The LTN planned for Acton is very different, for instance, than the LTN planned for South Ealing, where I would say, knowing the area a bit, that they do have a ratrunning problem on some streets, as cars drive down roads parallel to the A4 to avoid the main road. I have struggled to find a clear map of the LTN in Walthamstow, but from one illustration I saw, there seems to be a main road running down the middle of the LTN, so it works to get cars off side roads, not as in Acton, where cars have been sent on a sizeable detour around it. I don't know if you can tell me if that is correct.A brief Google map check shows that to get from Acton Main Line Station to Acton Central Station, the journey has gone up from 0.7 miles to 1.1 - that's a 57 per cent rise in distance. As for "If there wasn't a ratrunning problem there shouldn't be an issue". It really depends what you call a ratrunning problem. Is 4 cars a minute a ratrunning problem? I would say not, but 4 extra cars per minute on Horn Lane is a problem if the road is generally just about at capacity.One bit of history, which you may or may not be aware of, is that a decade ago, Horn Lane had the dubious distinction of being the most polluted road in London, mainly due do particulates from the waste management site next to the station. Things have improved since then, but things are still bad and I do want to go back to that.Obviously there was less traffic through Acacia Road before they made Grafton Road one-way. But like the other "anecdotes" I told, I would say that shows the area needs an overall traffic plan, not a few barriers put up blocking access to some roads and forcing drivers on a detour on already overcrowded roads.

Ron Lewis ● 1789d

in regards to the comments about a person living on Eastbourne Road and not having noticed the rat-run : I spoke to someone the other day living on Eastbourne Road and they commented on how traffic had increased over the last few years on their road and had turned into rat-running - they are hugely relieved at the measures. So am I, living in Goldsmith Road, which had also turned into a rat-run.I quite agree with the statement that we need to wait for the clear numbers and facts once the consultation has taken place - it should be happening as we speak except the barriers in Goldsmith Avenue are continuously open and therefore not giving a clear result yet.

Susan Hauser ● 1789d

Hi Ossian In my post I said that this is not reducing emissions in my opinion. You are entitled to disagree but this is my opinion. I shared the link to the petition to share for people to sign if they wish to do so. Thanks

Nicola Tyler ● 1789d

Hi Ron,I don’t love anything about this Ron.  It is taking time and effort from my life, but I felt a counter balance to the anecdotes being used as facts on this forum was needed.A definition of anecdotal 'not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research.'Everything anyone has written on this forum against the LTN, Ron, therefore is anecdotal and I will continue to point that out, because that is important to base decisions or views on facts – I trust you agree to that.Unless you decide to actually measure the impact, how can it be anything else but anecdotal?  The point about data from another area is that it gives us empirical information around the potential impact, based on similar sets of circumstances.  it is not exact, but very little ever is.  You could also do a modelling/simulation exercise to validate.  You can then do a test scheme – this is the stage we are in now I believe.“I'm sure LTNs can work in some areas, but they don't work in where they have been put in Acton. Maybe a smaller scheme would.” Again you make it up, what is basis for making the claim that it does not work here?  The objectives are clear, what are not working?  It goes against the most fundamental aspects of any development to claim that it does not work here.  In health we do case studies and then testing – do you not believe in those either?  Vaccinations and so forth.  this is a very dangerous approach to take and one that Donald Trump often take.If it wasn’t clear “the area” includes the boundary roads such as horn lane and Churchfield road.  I am concerned with churchfield road and horn lane, I live very near horn lane and I have never written that I am not concerned with these roads – please stick to facts and refrain from making up stuff, there is enough anecdotes to point out.Thanks for sharing another anecdotal story from your friend. I have lived on acacia for 6 years and I have experienced rat running to be prevalent.  Maybe the fact is that the rat run did not go through Eastbourne.  But as I have mentioned several times, you have to look at an scheme holistically – closing one road can impact another road.  Ron, you quote your friend not experiencing rat-running past her house, but that horn lane is getting worse.  One could argue that if you based your view on that anecdotal evidence, there is no rat running issue, so the LTN will have no negative impact on horn lane - you cannot have it both ways Ron.  Either there is a problem or there isn't.  You know what would settle that discussion - facts and figures.I cannot comment on your financial situation Ron, but I suspect that is true.  Our council reports to local politicians, I believe, we elect these politicians. I hope the council investigate and assess and report back their findings.  Finally, studies and facts are not there to prove points for anyone, Ron.  I am not sure if you fundamentally do not understand, but the research and studies are intended to describe reality (facts), in this case, in a holistic way, rather than rely on anecdotal evidence which is "not necessarily true or reliable".Have great day,Ossian

Ossian Olsén ● 1790d

The Acton and Chiswick points were different. I am not concerned about Acton's LTN causing traffic problems in Chiswick They seem to be do very well on that front on their own.You love to describe everything I say as anecdotal. Maybe it is, but what point is data from a very different area. I'm sure LTNs can work in some areas, but they don't work in where they have been put in Acton. Maybe a smaller scheme would.And I have no doubt that traffic to "the area" has been reduced if by "the area" you only mean the roads inside the LTN and are unconcerned about the area surrounding it.I was chatting today to a friend who lives in Eastbourne Road, which, according to this scheme would be on the main ratrun, along Emanuel and then joining up with St Dunstan's. She said that in more than a decade living there she had never notice a traffic or ratrunning problem. She had, however, noticed the increase in traffic and poor air in Horn Lane. Obviously that is anecdotal, but I don't have the council's money to finance a study to prove the point I want them to.

Ron Lewis ● 1790d

Hi Nicola,Maybe I misunderstood, but the consultation to the LTN in Acton is in consultation now.  The temporary road closures is part of the consultation, at least that is what I understood?  I am not sure how else you would consult, in particular as you seem to be able to conclude that the LTN does not reduce emissions based on your own experiences only.  I put to you that your opinion is not any form of evidence and that you do not know for a fact that this is true.  Maybe it doesn’t but maybe it does increase traffic and pollution.  I hope Ealing invest in a pre and post study to provide us with the data.  The traffic building in Acton may not only be due to LTN and the build up in chiswick definitely isn’t, they don’t have an LTN in the areas you complain about.  Or is the point that road changes causes havoc - yes I agree changes tend to do that.The best information I have found suggests that ltns work and that it reduces traffic to the area.  I have had this discussion on another forum for a while and I have yet to hear a reasonable and factual objection.  Personal impact (which are very real to the persons) and similar anecdotal claims that ltns are “not reducing emissions” seems to be the reasons for objecting.  The fact that ltns reduce traffic to an area seems to be lost on some contributors and I struggle to understand why.

Ossian Olsén ● 1790d

I noticed when I went to Chiswick on Sunday that you cannot now drive to the High Road via either Turnham Green Terrace or Fishers Lane.Also on Turnham Green Terrace they have put up a camera fining anyone who drives down there (a friend of my wife's was fined). By the number of people I saw driving down there on Saturday, there must be a lot of fines.This becomes a problem for people following their sat nav as the signs are not particularly obvious.

Ron Lewis ● 1790d