Forum Topic

Fines for residents parking in their CPZ

We have always received renewal parking permit reminders for our two cars (I know, not great) and relied on these to renew. For the first time in 15 years we were not reminded and, bingo, we got a PCN for a car parked right outside our front door. Our appeal is now awaiting their NTO. In the meantime we are instructed by the council to do nothing. I have started a post on our wider local Nextdoor.com site (please all register - it seems to have a wider reach than this site)and the large response has confirmed our wider suspicions. There is a groundswell of annoyance at the manner the council is treating car owners. The council has an unhelpful and uncaring attitude. Their IT systems can be (and have been) changed and it is up us to make the council treat us with more consideration and kindness. I have also looked at Ealingw5.com and there too the same thing has cropped up. The council is being harsh, unreasonable and antagonistic. These fines have to be appealed and we need to write to our local ward councillors. Any ideas how we can coordinate so that this matter will be dealt with? paul.cronshaw@gmail.com

Paul Cronshaw ● 2394d49 Comments

Having trouble understanding the change of vehicle PP guidelines on Ealing website.Already having a valid Permit  but needed to change my vehicle registration ...When you do a change on line does it cover straight away your new vehicle or do you have to apply for a temporary one until the new vehicle is approved?Thanks

Philippe Bruyer ● 2257d

That’s a great result. And only because of the efforts of residents fed up with this Council’s shortcomings. You have to wonder why this tin-eared Council had to drag this out for so long when their manifest incompetence was plain for all to see from the start. A change of regime in May would be good.

Peter Millman ● 2264d

A welcome update. I have seen a recent email from Gina Cole, Head of Parking Services, saying that all of these faulty IT related PCNs will be cancelled and those who paid will be refunded. Ms Cole goes on to write that they will contact those who paid, "we are interrogating the system to ensure those customers affected who have not made contact will be made aware".

Paul Cronshaw ● 2264d

I was lucky, but I always leave a sticky note on my laptop screen what and when to renew things. Yes since their upgrade it's been a headache. Last year I did a fresh start as they wanted, submitted all supporting docs, got confirmation my permit is live, just to be told two month later I hadn't sent supporting docs.

Mr Hemen Eghvay ● 2321d

Meanwhile, The Dear Leader, cycles on ..............  😆

Rosco White ● 2323d

@Naweed: commiserations. And on it goes ... parking services is clearly in trouble and Ealing's (vehicle-owning) residents are patiently waiting for acknowledgement of several IT failures, cancellation of PCNs issued because of these faults, refunds to those who paid. We are also waiting for written guarantees that this will not happen again and if it does what steps will be taken to solve those problems that do not involve the issuing of 1000s of unjust PCNs. Please keep your ward councillors and executive directors informed. Their details can be found: https://www.directory.londoncouncils.gov.uk/directory/ealing/officers/

Paul Cronshaw ● 2323d

Ealing Council took my £55 when I applied for a new residents parking permit. After the payment page, their website returned to the homepage showing an overlaying box with random characters. My bank statement showed the money had been deducted. I have no reference number or email confirmations. I reached out to them via Twitter at which point they replied back with a phone number. It's been 2 weeks and no one has got in touch. I emailed again this morning to request a full refund. The last time I was in communication with them, it took them 1 MONTH to reply to a simple question. The worst of the worst. Their whole system is outdated.

Naweed Shams ● 2324d

I know that we can see a problem here but even if we have given the Council the requested email address (email being easier and cheaper for them to deal with as a cost saving measure as with other organisations) don't forget that if you are using an office email that you will need to change it when you move jobs or retire. There are great discrepancies in the amount of IT experience and capabilities of residents.  The same with the types of media being used to communicate.

Philippa Bond ● 2327d

I had a meeting this week with Andrew Steed, an Ealing ward councillor. Below is a copy of the follow-up:To confirm, this unjust issue is now in the open, well documented and it is factually obvious that there is ("was" - we have not been told that LBE IT faults have been corrected) a problem that needs to be resolved:    Acknowledgement by the council that a problem occurred and 1000s of incorrect / unjust / unfair / immoral / accidental PCNs were issued because of this problem.    Cancellation of these PCNs    Refunds to those who have paid these PCNs    Written assurance from the council that this problem has been corrected, will not occur again and if it does, what procedures are in place to deal with it more equitably, fairly, justly and (I can't believe that I have to write this) ethically.    The person / people responsible for this would be expected to issue an apology.I am concerned that this issue might be politicised. Can I reiterate that this is an apolitical issue, so please, as a precaution, could you ensure the ongoing involvement of the chief executive, Paul Najsarek, until this is fully resolved.Attached, as promised, a copy of the letter to a resident whose unjust PCN was waived following his NTO representation.

Paul Cronshaw ● 2327d

Has anybody else received:* A PCN over this problem* A response to their NTO appealAny other news?

Paul Cronshaw ● 2331d

Indeed, well done and thanks, Barry.Now, what can be done with these startling, jaw-dropping figures to bring justice to those affected and reintroduce good sense and decency to those local public servants in LBE council who have caused these problems?

Paul Cronshaw ● 2341d

Very well done to Barry Gleeson. He's shown how useful the Freedom of Information Act can be. 

Kevin Howard ● 2344d

In case you didn't realise the scale of this problem, the following appeared over the weekend:http://www.chiswickw4.com/default.asp?section=info&spage=common/eaparking004.htm

Paul Cronshaw ● 2345d

You would think it's possible to pay by direct debit, but unfortunately, it's only to split the current year into four payments, then the direct debit will stop. You'd have to set up a new one when you renew. This is from @ealingparking on Twitter:Permits have never been renewed automatically. It's not possible.  Direct debit instructions only last for the duration of the permit ie 1 yr. You would've needed to renew yourself, complete an app form & complete a new DD mandate.https://twitter.com/ealingparking/status/1154349321942380545Their excuse is that people might move and not tell them, or have more than one permit, in which case the price would change. Suggesting that if people move and don't tell them, that's their fault, and if people have multiple cars, surely they can see that on their database and price the permits accordingly cuts no mustard.

David Buck ● 2357d

[  Arthur Breens (Northfield) is collating a list of persons who have had problems with the renewal of parking permits. He will then use the numbers as part of his complaint to LBE.  He will not use names or examples without further contact.Please email him: breens01@btinternet.com  ]

Paul Cronshaw ● 2361d

Looks like it is possible to pay by direct debithttps://www.ealing.gov.uk/downloads/download/3688/resident_parking_permit_application_-_blue_badge_holders_and_direct_debit_payersWording suggests that the price is higher going via that route. Perhaps because of them having to process the application by hand in the council.I suspect that one reason for not making it obvious that this can be done is that someone changing cars might forget to update the details with the parking people because they forgot about it after renewals happened automatically ... and then have issues when tickets.

Paul Webster ● 2369d

A thought: if the council stopped sending out council tax bills because of an IT fault, system migration problem etc would it then follow up with threats to fine non-payers (for those who don't pay by direct debit). Would bailiffs start appearing at doorways, the physical equivalent of these PCNs being issued? When will the council allow residents to pay their parking permits by direct debit while also automatically sending annual reminders of the cost and expiry date.Further thoughts: insurance and utility companies send out reminders, from personal experience apparently without fail. If TV Licensing stopped sending out reminders, for whatever reason, would it start issuing threats of fines or actual fines while blithely stating that it is the TV owners' responsibility to know the license's expiry date?It would help restore people's faith in local government if there was more openness and honesty about their failed and / or failing procedures. This is a case where apologies are more appropriate than unjust and illegitimate PCNs.

Paul Cronshaw ● 2369d

Posted today on Chiswickw4.com:I am an 87 year old lady from Acton Hill and also had a parking ticket on my car outside my own house. Went to Perceval House in Ealing to ask why . Permit had expired. Was taken to a PC and told to renew it . I am not very computer literate and had no idea how to do that. So eventually a rather irritated worker did it for me taking her nearly 40 minutes. Then paid the fine also. Was told no way would I get a refund . Large amount of money out of my small pension. To whom do I appeal please. ?

Paul Cronshaw ● 2374d

I had a reply from the council who told me that as I had paid my fine, they could not process my request to have the fine overturned, which they said, had to go via the  official process (which is the appeal to the PCN).They said that the problem was in July and has now been fixed and  that emails should be sent out now but restated their position that any email is a courtesy only.My suggestion is that people who have been fined should appeal via the way listed on the parking ticket as they won't look at it any other way.

Mark Jarvis ● 2374d

Almost one week on and with this and other social media and email it is clear that this is an ongoing problem. Appeals have yet to be put to the test, unless you have or know of somebody who is at the appeal stage, but there is a case not to pay the PCN and take it to the next stage(s).There is a person with experience dealing with problem PCNs, who is a source of very good advice. Please contact me for their details: paul.cronshaw@gmail.com

Paul Cronshaw ● 2374d

Thanks Libby.Mark Jarvis: do you mind if your name is used openly in further communications with the council and with others about this matter?Thanks, paul.cronshaw@gmail.com

Paul Cronshaw ● 2381d

I have uploaded a PDF of all the councillors' emails by ward.  You can find it in the Files section of Ealing Matters Facebook page, along with other useful information.  I am not sure how I can load it onto this page.  You do not have to join the FB page to look at the information.

Libby Kemp ● 2381d

I wrote to Julian Bell and Dan Crawford and Sarah Rooney, making it clear that there are a lot of angry and upset people who had been fined over expired permits.I pointed out that you get reminders for most annual bills and questioned why this was not possible for Ealing Council's parking system.Dan Crawford, to his credit, responded very quickly and told me that there had been a computer problem in July which mean't that reminders didn't go out, but this has subsequently been fixed. He said I could use his name in any appeal of the fine. I recommend that this is what anyone who is appealing their fine should do. I paid my fine, because I didn't trust that it would be upheld, given that by the letter of the rules, my permit had expired, but it looks like appeals might have a chance.

Mark Jarvis ● 2382d

Hi All,Could we make a point of posting updates once we hear back from ward councillors, committee members, the leader (?!) etc. I am still waiting for a reply from one of my ward councillors who said she'd look into this.

Paul Cronshaw ● 2383d

PS Am interested you are keen on Next-door.com. I find it incredibly tedious, not very well-frequented and not particularly local. Only a few hundred Actinians are on it while thousands are here. (even if not many post)Why do you like it?

Sara Nathan ● 2384d

I think they are all the same format.So one of our councillors is Cllr. Daniel Crawford the other is Cllr. Sarah Rooney I imagine the leader is therefore  BellJ@ealing.gov.uk

Sara Nathan ● 2384d

According to a thread on a separate site about this mess his details are on the Ealing Council website and he can be reached by phone (?!). Have you emailed your ward councillors?Would you keep us informed of anything else you find out.

Paul Cronshaw ● 2384d

Does anyone have Julian Bell's email address at Ealing Council. I think it used to on the back pages of 'Around Ealing' but I don't have a copy anymore.I would like to send him an email about this parking permit mess.

Mark Jarvis ● 2384d

Please could you all keep all correspondence, emails, records etc of these interactions with the council.There will be a period when all this unfair (dare I now say unprincipled) behaviour by the council will be held to account.

Paul Cronshaw ● 2385d

Lucky you!And if you hadn't received the reminder would you have remembered?How did the council remind you? Email, letter, phone message?

Paul Cronshaw ● 2390d

The council must be taking notice. I received a reminder today that mine was running out on the 12th October.

Eleanor Stewart ● 2390d

Hi Laura,Have you paid the PCN? Are you waiting for the NTO? You are not alone, that is for sure.It is becoming clearer with each passing day that something is amiss with parking services and we are all waiting for some action from them that will be decent and fair. Have you written to your ward councillors? That is another way to raise your concerns.All the best, paul.cronshaw@gmail.com

Paul Cronshaw ● 2391d

Thanks to reading posts on here, discovered yesterday that residents parking permit expired - yesterday! Couldn't log onto account for some reason, so called council yesterday and received a call back, and did it all over the phone.  Did explain no reminder had been sent, and that it wasn't a decent thing to do to people.  According to them, reminders were sent out.  I suggested if they had - so many people would not have received fines!

Helen New ● 2391d

I too have been fined for my resident's permit having expired, as well as several of my immediate neighbours.Ealing Council say that notification was given to myself (my post? by email?) 28 days before it expired, plus I was given a 7 day period of grace was the response when I challenged the PCN.I have emailed Parking & cc'd in Julian Bell to no avail.  I have requested a call back - 3 days apparently, I have sent emails 30 days response time - absolutely nothing as of yet - day 29 as I type...  I purchased immediately the permit & the ping back said that I would get confirmation of payment.  Again absolutely nothing.I am sorry to hear that I am not the only person who has been treated like this by Ealing Council.It would be very interesting to find out just how many PCN fees that the Council has collected as part of the Resident's Parking Renewal system.If enough people have been affected, it might also be an idea to find out whether we have a friendly solicitor or barrister in the area who might be willing to take up a legal challenge.  The fees for this could be Crowdfunded.Any thoughts?

Laura Boyle ● 2391d

I didn't get a reminder. My permit ran out on 9th. Luckily I didn't get a fine. Thanks to this thread I checked and have now paid. What a shambles.

Chris Hurley ● 2391d

So this is the first renewal since the change in system and probably since your CPZ came into effect.  What will happen when they next change the system?I completely agree with Phil Taylor:"I also note that the Council fails to send a an email when you renew so that you can easily refer to the renewal date by searching your inbox."Our account showed our permit to be pending I think until the actual day that it was due to come into effect.  That isn't good enough.  Once we've paid and payment is confirmed we need to know that it is updated and OK as we shouldn't have to keep on checking knowing that if it isn't it will be yet another mission. 

Philippa Bond ● 2391d

This headline from today's (12 Sep) actonw3.com newsletter:http://www.actonw3.com/default.asp?section=info&page=actcpzpermits001.htm

Paul Cronshaw ● 2391d

Thanks. If only all of us had received the same email.

Paul Cronshaw ● 2393d

FYI - I had email about it on 12th Aug 2018 - subject startedURGENT: New Parking System for resident permit holders

Paul Webster ● 2393d

@Philippa | We do now!Any communication (was there any?)from the council about this new parking IT system passed us by. Neither of us (two cars - I know, not great) received an email, a letter, a message about registering on this new site. It is no consolation to discover over the past few days that plenty of other residents have been caught out by this same 'trap', viz a PCN after not renewing a parking permit.

Paul Cronshaw ● 2393d

Yes

Paul Webster ● 2393d

Do you have an Ealing Council Taranto permit account?

Philippa Bond ● 2393d

I don't think so (assuming you are referring to the bit about the prefixes to the permit names).

Paul Webster ● 2393d

Hi Paul,I've just had a look at the link. Have there been changes to the last few paragraphs since you last looked?Thanks, Paul.cronshaw@gmail.com

Paul Cronshaw ● 2393d

Thanks Paul. Very helpful.

Paul Cronshaw ● 2393d

I received a reminder at the start of 2019 for mine.The email came from the council - not from their new service provider (Taranto).At the end of the reminder there was a FAQ section that included:"Will I still receive a permit renewal reminder?Yes, we will still send out permit renewal reminders 28 days before your permit is due to expire."The Ealing COuncil web site still says that they will send out reminder emails ... but they describe it as "a courtesy permit renewal reminder" ... presumably the word "courtesy" has been included to try to suggest that not receiving it is not sufficient to avoid renewing.https://www.ealing.gov.uk/info/201178/parking/2463/new_parking_system/1

Paul Webster ● 2393d

Correction: ealingtoday.co.uk (not ealingw7.com)

Paul Cronshaw ● 2394d

Hi Phil,I sense something is awry here. There is an upsurge in people being penalised in this same manner. I base this on reading a recent post on ealingw7.com as well as the responses to my post on nextdoor.com (have you registered?). I will see our PCN through the appeal processes and would ask maybe that I could count on you to send confirmation / proof of your PCN if and when required. By my reckoning you are owed a refund for paying that unjust PCN.You are right that the council could send reminders, as it always did previously. I wonder why the council doesn't allow us to pay these permits by direct debit, in a similar way that we can pay the council tax.There is clearly something to be done here to make the council act with decency and fairness. I wish I knew where and how to start! paul.cronshaw@gmail.com

Paul Cronshaw ● 2394d

I too failed to get a reminder and got a ticket. I have paid it.I also note that the Council fails to send a an email when you renew so that you can easily refer to the renewal date by searching your inbox. There is no reason why the Council can't send three reminders and three by text too for that matter.The whole thing stinks.

Phil Taylor ● 2394d